Van der Poel on cobbles, 460 watts, and dropping Pogačar before the Roubaix Velodrome

On Thursday afternoon, 3 days before they enter the famous Roubaix velodrome, Mathieu van der Poel and Jasper Philipsen sat just over the border, on the outskirts of Wevelgem. Relaxed and at ease, the pair chatted about cobblestones, that 460 watt number, and why races are getting faster. IDL Pro Cycling was in attendance, bringing you all the answers from two of the big favourites.

Mathieu van der Poel: From Roubaix? Once. Well, actually, only during the recon of Flanders and E3, sometimes we go on the cobbles. But from Roubaix, only once a year, actually.

VdP: During the race, it's fun, of course, but training, I don't think—I've said this already before— I don't think many professionals just go and train on cobbles. We try to avoid bad roads, so especially the cobbles, you stay away from them.

VdP: Oh, no idea. I think it's a bit of a mix between power and just being able to handle a bike well. It gets you far in a race like Roubaix.

VdP: I think there's also a lot of cyclists who really love to ride on the cobbles, especially at a race like Roubaix. Like I said, I don't really mind it during the race. Of course, it's super nice, and it goes by quickly as well. The entry speed is way higher than in training, so the sectors go fast, and you're also in the race between the crowd, so it helps.

VdP: No, not really. I think we are a bit more favorites than in the Tour of Flanders. I said it before Flanders because if you just look at the previous years that Pogacar was there, it was quite clear he was stronger than the rest. But I think, or at least I hope, in Roubaix it will be a bit of a different story.

Jasper Philipsen: Yeah, I think for sure what we achieved in the past in Roubaix, it's a race that suits us very well. We have a strong team as well, so I think it's a completely different race than a race last Sunday.

VdP: I think in Roubaix, maybe we have an ideal scenario just because Jasper is faster in the sprint than Florian is. But I think everybody saw how strong that Florian was riding already this year, and in Roubaix it's also a race where you can go alone, and try to avoid a situation where you have to chase.

VdP: Yeah, I think there's a lot more that can happen than in different classic races, so for sure you need a bit of luck on your side as well. You also have it in hand a little bit, I would say. You have to try and not be too aggressive on the cobbles and search for good lines as well. So of course, punctures can always be a lucky moment.

VdP: Yeah. I was in the wheel, so I remember it. He just went super fast, and I think he misjudged the corner a little bit. And I think if that doesn’t happen, it would have been very difficult to get rid of each other. But that's also what the race is about. I think it's very hard to just drop somebody, but it's not impossible.

VdP: No, I didn't really have a problem there. I missed my corner only slightly, so yeah, only on the last real sector I had to change bikes because of a flat tire, but I had the car already behind me, so I was never really panicking.

VdP: Well, I don't really have a view on it. I mean, I did what I had to do, and I was in the position to win the race. Of course, I know that it would have been difficult to follow him, but I don't think not riding with him would have changed the outcome of the race or even would have given me a better chance to win the race. I always do what I think is best.

VdP: But there's a difference between pulling all out and doing your turns. It was obviously him that didn't want Remco back in the front, I was just in the wheel and doing my thing. I think if I stop riding there, it's also a bit of anti-racing. We're going to see each other some more years at some more races as well, so it's better to understand each other, I think.

VdP: That's what I mean. If you take too much risk, you also have the chance of puncturing. And I think Tadej already showed he’s handling his bike very well. He's always in position in the most hectic races. Also last year, he was really doing a good job on the technical sectors as well, so of course, you can always put some pressure on somebody in the corners, but I don't think for me that's a tactic I'm going to use.

JP: Yeah, it's a different approach. If you already won a nice classic, then I think Roubaix is a race that suits us very well. But it's also a race where anything can happen. If you wouldn't have won anything and you would go into Roubaix, it's always a bit tricky, because you can do a super good race but still have a puncture or some bad luck. Anything can happen in a race like Sunday. If you go with an open mind, it can only be good. In the end, if it's bad luck, then it's bad luck. That's for everybody.

VdP: For me, normally it's a bit of golf. But I have to say the races are so hard this year that on Monday or Tuesday, I don't really feel like going and playing. That's also something that really changed about the racing nowadays. It's very hard to do something. You can do one or two good trainings maybe between the races, but that's it, because if you look at the energy output you have in the races nowadays, you just need two, three days to recover and feel ready to train again.

JP: Yeah. Also rest. I lay on my sofa. It's like now in the classics, the races come every two, three days, Wednesday, Sunday, or whatever. There's just not much time to do a lot of house activities or whatever. Just try to recover and try to be as good as possible for the next race.

JP: No idea. I have to look up. I think maybe 100 watts less than Mathieu.

VdP: No, they analyzed it, and yeah, it was true. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it. But it was just to show how hard the part was to ride along with the wind because a few so-called experts had an opinion once again. I don't share anything on Strava anymore, but I like to sometimes share something. For me, it was nice to see that I'm still improving at this age, but like I said, I have to ride against somebody like Tadej who is maybe the best cyclist of all time. I just do what I can and try to be in the best possible shape that I can. It was just to show that I managed to do that, but it was still not enough.

JP: No, I haven't checked so far, but I know it’s a slight chance of rain as well, but yeah, we'll see. I don't know yet what to do yet.

VdP: A tailwind is always good for me in Roubaix. I think it makes the race way harder and more open. I think if you have the wind fighting against you all day, it can be more of a closed race and also less good for attackers, so I prefer to have a tailwind in Roubaix.

VdP: Yeah, I think, to be honest, that Roubaix is maybe even more difficult for him to win, but yeah, I think nobody will say anymore that he can't win a race like this, so it's the same. You need a bit of luck, of course, in Roubaix, but I think, he showed last year already that he is capable of winning.

VdP: Yeah, of course. We always go, yeah, try and win the biggest races, and especially with Roubaix. I am also realistic enough that I will not keep the streak going forever, so I try my best to win on Sunday together with the team. We also know that there will be one year where we don't succeed in doing so.

JP: Yeah, in Roubaix, I think the fight for the break is always quite hard. It takes a long time, so the chances of getting pretty far out in a breakaway is also there. It depends also on the wind, the weather. Of course, it's a race also, so for example, in Dwars door Vlaanderen, there was not even a breakaway. It can be the same as well in Roubaix that we just keep on riding and fighting for a breakaway, and then already the first section is there, and then the race is open. So yeah, you don't know nowadays.

VdP: Yeah, I think it's a bit the same also with the teams nowadays. The race is always going on now as well. At the Tour of Flanders, the race starts at Molenberg, so it's only 150 km that the helpers have to control the race, let's say, so you just sacrifice one or two guys to keep the breakaway short, and then yeah, the race opens up quite soon, and then it's very difficult for a breakaway to survive. But if there's one race where it's possible to at least get in the final, it is Roubaix. But everybody knows this, and that's also why the fight is always so big to be in the breakaway here.

JP: Yeah, it's crazy that every year they break records. It doesn't say, "This year we have a record," and then the next year there's even another record. I don't know how long it will continue like that. Everything gets better, it seems like. So yeah, of course, we try to deliver the same output from training and whatever. It's not that we do specifically different things, but the speed gets higher, apparently, or they race longer. You see it in many races, but yeah, I'm curious to see how long this trend will continue.

JP: Yeah, you feel the speed is high, but you feel the time in the race is shorter, so we don't race seven hours anymore on a classic like that. It's just a race of five hours thirty, or six hours.

MvP: Yeah, I think it's a bit also like we said, if you already race one hour or two hours to get in the breakaway, of course, the speed is high, and then also the final starts way sooner than it was in the past. So it's normal that the last 100 km is faster than it was in the past. I think it's a bit a combination of this, and of course, the bikes and all the equipment are getting faster also, the nutrition changed, so I think it's a combination of a lot of different things. In my opinion, this is a bit the limit. We cannot go faster and faster, otherwise they’ll have to add certain kilometers to get a longer race, so I think this is a bit the limit, to be honest.

VdP: Yeah, I think for sure it's better that the races are harder for me. I like it. I think it's also just a few races, of course, so for me, it's nice to just try and focus on these ones. I don't mind it being really hard from start to finish.

VdP: Not really. Just that he was really good on cobbles as well, but this was already something we knew from the stage in the tour a few years back where he was also impressive already. Like I said, he's just a rider that can do everything.

VdP: One of the two is okay for me. It doesn't matter, but yeah, for sure, it will be difficult for me to drop him, but it will also be difficult the other way around. Let's see and hope that nobody has bad luck because that can really influence the race, of course, in a race like Roubaix. I really think there's more riders to watch on Sunday that can also win this. There's no uphill sector where you can really make a difference. You can go fast on the cobbles, but to really drop another really strong rider, it's more difficult on the flat sector than doing it on Kwaremont, for example.

VdP: It's always difficult to say, but I don't think there was a lot of difference between us at this point. So like I said, I think it would have been difficult to drop each other.

VdP: The last one. Then you know it's over. I don't have a favorite one, actually.

JP: The worst is definitely the Boss van Wallers, the Tour d'Argenberg is the worst one.

VdP: Yeah, I think he showed already a couple of times that it's a race that suits him very well. I think, last year he was a bit out of shape because of the crash he had in Nokre Korse and then he also crashed here, but he was still in front with Tadej and me, so it shows it's a race that suits him very well. Also for me, it's nice, of course, to have somebody like Jasper that can also actually win the race in a sprint. It's easier for me in front as well to play my cards.

VdP: No, a bit the same. I think the shape cannot go away in one week, of course, but yeah, you have to do the right things and try to recover as good as possible. We're going to try to end the classic races on a high note for the first part.

VdP: Probably yes. I think so.

JP: Also, probably yes.

VdP: Depends on how I feel after Roubaix, but the plan is to stop after Roubaix.